Wasanelder Once

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Posts by Wasanelder Once

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  42

  Ray Franz CoC, was he in denial? Just asking.

  by Wasanelder Once in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was reading a little coc last night where ray f. disusses the witch hunt at bethel that resulted in all the oustings.

  as i read the doctrines that he questioned, (not judging him right or wrong), i noticed that he was questioning some of the fundamental beliefs of the wt.

  ie: gov.

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  Wasanelder Once

  TD,

  What I meant about denial was in regard to his being "surprised" at the way he was handled regarding his differing views on doctrine. How can he honestly write as if he were shocked by the treatment given him when he was in the "Truth" as long as he was? I was an elder (hey look at that!) for a short time and I saw the way they did thier witch hunts and the unloving way they treated people of differing opinions. He was in the org for 60 years or so and on the GB so I don't follow all this "they were unloving to me" business. That's the denial I'm talking about. He had to know the game, the way things run, the whole enchilada, and stuff. That's all I'm referring to. Any witness knows that its a closed society, in both mind and affections. You dare not utter a word that is not in agreement. That's what I mean by denial. Ray writes as if it were an earth shattering thing to him. I suppose he thought he was above the witch hunts because he was one of the good ol' boys? I don't know.

  As I said, his book is still of great value. I just wonder about some of the ways he expresses himself, that's all.

  W.Once
• 
  42

  Ray Franz CoC, was he in denial? Just asking.

  by Wasanelder Once in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was reading a little coc last night where ray f. disusses the witch hunt at bethel that resulted in all the oustings.

  as i read the doctrines that he questioned, (not judging him right or wrong), i noticed that he was questioning some of the fundamental beliefs of the wt.

  ie: gov.

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• 

  Wasanelder Once

  I was reading a little CoC last night where Ray F. disusses the witch hunt at Bethel that resulted in all the oustings. As I read the doctrines that he questioned, (not judging him right or wrong), I noticed that he was questioning some of the fundamental beliefs of the WT. ie: Gov. Body = no authority, Christ mediator for all, all are God's sons by spirit, among others. Though its obvious that the Gov. Body went after him with the goal of kicking him to the curb, what else could he expect? If one holds to other doctrine they would have to assume that his mind was made up, especially when he wouldn't initial his approval for articles. It seems that if his goal was to stay in the club with impunity he should have just kept his mouth shut and moved out of Bethel without making an issue. He forced thier hand simply by acting on his own conscience, which is admirable. (Really though, it sounds as if he were going to just continue pretending things would be ok in the org and ride it out. He didn't stand up and say, hey this is all wrong.) He states that he wanted to see the brothers try to readjust him in a spirit of mildness and help him understand what the scriptures actually say. We all know that once you've seen the truth you are an apostate by WT terms. You don't have to utter a word to anyone in an effort to persuade them, just holding to another view and letting the tongue slip is a death sentence. Ray couldn't fade, he was too bright a star to just drift off. So, was he in denial about what to expect from the old boys? He writes as if he were honestly surprised by their reactions. It's a little hard to believe that after all those years in the Org and 9 years on the Gov. Body that he hadn't see the bullcrap before. It reads as if its written for non-witnesses who are ignorant of the truth about the truth and accept things at face value. What do you think?

  It's still a very important and telling book.

  W.Once

  (fixed sp)
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  16

  WHAT WAS RUSSELL'S GOOFIEST IDEA

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any nominations?

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  Wasanelder Once

  Andyc,

  Tis true, go here http://www.premier1.net/~raines/women.html and you will see info on the book Angels and Women written by a woman who took dictation from a demon who was repentent about his actions during the time before the flood. That's the story of the book, the actions of Angels and women before the flood. Russell thought it would be instructive as to how ungodly things were before the flood. Genius, eh?

  They edited it ans had it published, offering it through the WT.

  W.Once
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  5

  CAN IT BE DELAYED UNTIL 1914?

  by under_believer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  from the july 15, 1894 watch tower: .

  can it be delayed until 1914?

  seventeen years ago people said, concerning the time features presented in millennial dawn, they seem reasonable in many respects, but surely no such radical changes could occur between now and the close of 1914: if you had proved that they would come about in a century or two, it would seem much more probable.

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  Wasanelder Once

  You gotta sell the SIZZLE baby! (Cause there aint nothing else.)

  W.Once
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  13

  Speaker Podiums at the KH

  by limbogirl in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for some strange reason i started thinking about the fact that i've never seen a speaker podium like the ones used at the kh anywhere aside from the kh.

  you know what i'm talking about...those tall spindly legs supporting a small table and then a bible holder thing attached to that.

  are those made specifically for the kh?

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  Wasanelder Once

  We had one in our congregation that was made by a brother. It was a monstrosity. He put the Watchtower tower logo on the front of it. I went round and round with the brothers about the rationale of the corporate logo being on the podium. We don't work for the corportation, I said. They all ganged up on me and it stayed. I hated it, really, really hated it. The Assembly Hall had the twin to it for a number of years. The part that holds your notes and Bible had a switch to make it go up and down from a car window. The base was bulky since it had to hold the motor and stuff, that's why there was room for a huge WT logo on it. When a new CO came he said, Nope get that off there. It took a good six years before someone opened thier damn eyea about it. I was thrilled. I thought of al the people I would study with that asked if we were a cult and I'd say no but bring them to see this damn WT on the platform instead of a cross.

  W.Once
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  3

  Raumpatrouille Orion

  by VM44 in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  has anyone seen the television program raumpatrouille orion?

  it was shown on german television about the same time the original star trek was first shown on american television (circa 1966).

  i understand that despite only lasting seven episodes it has achieved somewhat of a cult status in germany.. --vm44.

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  Wasanelder Once

  Daystar,

  I tried some of the other clips and found this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR8aSPT81pA&mode=related&search= , it has subtitles. It's the intro and the first few moments of the episode. The commander was a woman! Very progressive, sort of the German Janeway....

  W.Once
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  9

  Your View of "Worldly" People as a Jehovah's Witness ... Then and Now

  by The wanderer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  <!-- .style1 {font-family: arial, sans-serif;font-size: 16px; } .style2 {font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; } --> #secondary { position: absolute; top: 311px; left: 563px; width: 132px; font-size: 100%; border: thin solid #000000; background-color: #ffffcc; height: 122px; padding: 5px; }

  } your view of "worldly" people as a jehovah's witness being in the organization was unique, in the sense, that we were told to.

  love our fellowman and we showed this "act of love" through our preaching.

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  Wasanelder Once

• As a Witness did you feel a contempt for "worldly people" ?

Nope, never felt contempt. Oddly, I never understood this point of view. How could I have contempt for people who were "misled, misinformed and on thier way to destruction?" I always wanted to help them. I never understood why our help ended at the point of giving them magazines and a ride to the Kingdom Hell. Then again, I still seem to get used by people I have extended a helping hand to.

• In your own mind did this create an environment of "us"
  verses "them" ?

There was a sense of "us" and "them" from childhood for me. Worldly people are the non israelites and there is a wall between them and true christians. They are infectious, we were clean. Yes, there was a seperation. Within my mind? That was always a little bit of a grey area, which is probably why I'm not in the camp of israel at this time.

• How did you get over this psychological brainwashing ?
  Or did you get over it ?

Wasn't hard.Just a little suspisciou is all. I'm over it pretty much.

W.Once